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another viewpoint on all this that we've

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talked about many times before just so

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it's on the floor I think the

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conclusions being jumped to in the New

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Scientist article and a lot of other

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places are just naive and there's an

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awful lot of confusion about all this so

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let me give you my viewpoint you can

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react for two entangled particles take

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off in different directions they are in

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a state that's no less real than

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anything with a simple up-or-down spin

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they're in a very definite state that's

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a superposed state and in a in a Hilbert

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space that's just a vector at 45 degrees

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rather than at zero or 90 degrees

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exactly as determined or and exactly as

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real as anything else it's just not in

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on our basis it's in a definite state of

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superposition now it is true that when

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you measure that interaction changes it

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to be in an upstate or a downstate in it

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in a binary system but consciousness in

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my view has nothing whatsoever to do

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with it environment is simply wrong

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about this so the leap that I would

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object to is the one that says these

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phenomena which you've pretty much

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correctly described imply that the

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consciousness creates the universe

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reality that's being discussed as a very

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naive definition of reality I would say

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and our interactions do have something

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to do with what happens in the universe

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obviously but it's all out there and

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it's real whether we interact with it or

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not and the interactions that are

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involved in quantum measurement are a

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lot more prosaic than then are sometimes

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portrayed well it's certainly something

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we're not going to settle here because

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it's a very deep issue I'd like to point

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out though that the notion that you have

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a spin that objectively exists that you

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simply measure out here that sort of

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runs afoul in the idea or the the fact i

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should say that whenever regardless of

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which direction you choose to measure

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the spin in it's going to be a one half

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H bar it's going to be either up or down

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it's not going to be at some anger not

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going

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measure some fraction of one half H bar

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or H bar whichever the spin is of the

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particle so it's not it's a you are

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creating a reality here when you make a

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measurement because the object would not

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know that you're going to measure in

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this direction therefore it has to be

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aligned this way it can't be that way or

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that way because you're always going to

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measure their an up or down you're never

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have a question about whether you've

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begun to connect these theories with

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human identity you know who we are in

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relationship to the quantum world and

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how we relate to one another well in the

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book the guy theory I do make some

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suggestions along those lines I mean

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that's not the point of this talk I

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didn't want to preach about my

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metaphysics of God but since you asked

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the question I'll say a sense or two

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about that i think that basically it's

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that the rationale behind the universe

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is that there's a consciousness that

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created the universe because that

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Constance wanted to experience what it's

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like to live in that universe as you as

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me as the animals as the plan says

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whatever aliens exist in the Andromeda

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galaxy the point of it is to create our

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universe in which life can arise

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following the laws of Darwinian

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evolution good point are when you

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evolution is key aspect of this life can

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evolve and that consciousness can

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experience its potential which is the

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experience that we're having right here

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in this room now in part so that's my

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metaphysical interpretation what how it

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relates to quantum physics at any level

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deeper than what I've said here today I

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wouldn't know and this is my my attempt

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to show that quantum physics at least if

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it quarter physics cannot prove the

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existence of God cannot do that but it

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does certainly point to the idea that

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consciousness is a key element in the

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creation of reality and with with the

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apologies of dick schaap how does

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perception affect the conscious of

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reality in the equation of consciousness

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creating reality how does perception

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affect it well actually ending on your

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head is it spin up or down I'm taking

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perception as being the what Constance

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does in the making of the measurement

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process I mean that's part of

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consciousness and the conscious

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conscious being active in this process

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making an observation is perception I

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don't understand the question beyond

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that

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I spinning its spinning whichever way

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you choose to measure it if you choose

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to measure the spin in this direction

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it's going to either up or down it's not

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going to be some fraction of that it's

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going to be either up or down very

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mysterious you know this is not what you

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think if you spin take a globe you know

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spitting around its axis and you tilted

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in various directions if you choose to

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measure its spin and say this direction

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by spitting in that one you'll get some

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fractional some fractional value for

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what the projection of the this axis is

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on that one but you make a quantum spin

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measurement it's always going to be up

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or down regardless of which direction

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you measure you get to choose so uh like

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if there is a crowd of people and

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there's a rock in the center or

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something everybody's looking at it if

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someone looked away it the rock wouldn't

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disappear so it's like you have to have

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no one watching something for it like

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kind of fur not to really be there

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design well I son asked the same sort of

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question because I send didn't much care

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for quantum physics and so he asked one

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of his colleagues well do you really

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think the moon is not there when you

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don't look at it and he was really

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didn't like quantum physics but as it

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turns out Einstein was proven wrong

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because the bell inequality demonstrated

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that the Einstein Podolsky Rosen paradox

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was indeed mistaken and so was Einstein

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now you know the question of whether

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things are not there when we're not

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looking I would want to go that far I

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mean clearly that's that's not even that

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doesn't happen though at the quantum

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level at the quantum level it certainly

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seems seems to happen because things

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don't actually get put in their proper

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place until you make the measurement so

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I'm i guess i'm forced to say that

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there's a mystery here when you try to

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extrapolate this to our this the state

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of the universe in the state of

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ourselves mystery dad will just have to

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live with but it certainly points that

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way unfortunately i'm sure there were a